CLINTON: Where we part company is that he didn’t support [the Bill for] 100,000 teachers in the classroom. And he has not gone along with the bipartisan plan to build and repair our schools so that we actually can have those lower classroom sizes. And he supports vouchers, which I oppose.
LAZIO: I have voted twice to reduce class size, twice for billions to help us recruit new teachers. I have been a co-sponsor of bipartisan legislation for school construction. You know that. What’s important here is that we understand the difference between us. Mrs. Clinton believes that all the decisions should be made in Washington, that we should force categorical programs. I understand that communities should be making those decisions on a community-by-community basis.
Q: Is it true what he says - that you’re for testing new teachers but not teachers who are already in the system?
CLINTON: That’s right. And that’s what the New York law is. You know, I agree that we should be testing new teachers. I believe that we ought to have pay for performance where we evaluate teachers. I think we ought to streamline the due process standards so that teachers that don’t measure up would no longer be in the classroom.
CLINTON: The work that was done in Arkansas received numerous awards and praise, because we really started something that I’m very proud of. And test scores went up in third grade and sixth grade. High school graduation went up. The work was done against great odds, in a very poor state.
LAZIO: I have a very different perspective on your record in Arkansas. And I would just urge the voters not to rely on what I’m saying, but to look it up.
CLINTON: I’m not here to defend Arkansas. I’m here to run for the Senate to represent New York.
LAZIO: I realize that you don’t want to talk about Arkansas because that experience was a disaster for Arkansas.
CLINTON: I’m happy to talk about it if that’s what you want to spend your time talking about.
LAZIO: That’s your record, Mrs. Clinton. You can’t run away from your record.
Q: Are you trapped by the teachers unions?
CLINTON: No. In fact I’m very much in line with what I think will work and what experts in the field think. You know, I’m a lawyer. I had to take a bar exam. Mr. Lazio’s a lawyer. He took a bar exam and he wasn’t tested every five years. I think teachers are professionals and should be treated as professionals. That’s why I believe that we should test teachers in the beginning to make sure that when they got their teaching degree, that they’re qualified.
CLINTON: He received a million dollars in contributions from the home-building industry.
LAZIO: If you look at the average donation that I receive, it’s like less than $100. In the House, of course I’ve been very active on housing issues.
Q: But have you gotten heavy contributions from the housing industry?
LAZIO: We’ve gotten contributions from a whole range of people with different interests that are important to the quality of life of New Yorkers
CLINTON: He received a million dollars in contributions from the home-building industry and from the manufacturers of homes. And in return, at least there is an appearance that he did several things. He fought to weaken the safety standards for manufactured housing and in-home building.
LAZIO: That’s absolutely false. And you know it, Mrs. Clinton.
CLINTON: Well, Mr. Lazio, you just referred to The Daily News, which ran an investigative article which made exactly that point.
LAZIO: It’s not a matter of personal dislike, [but] to point at the differences between candidates and the philosophy between two candidates.
Q: Do you dislike him?
CLINTON: No. I think that I have no personal animus at all toward Mr. Lazio. He seems like a very nice person.
Q: Well, name three things that you like about him.
CLINTON: Well, it seems like he has a very nice family. And that he has worked very hard. And that he’s an attractive young man.
Q: And you name three things you like about her.
LAZIO: Well, I think you’re an attractive woman. And I think you’ve got a very nice family. I’m sure you’re a very good mother as well.
CLINTON: Thank you very much. But that’s not what this election’s about. And what it is about are the very significant differences between us on everything like education and health care and the economy and the environment and guns and choice and Social Security and the budget surplus.
LAZIO: I’ve done that many times. In Congress, supporting NAFTA and the assault weapons ban after receiving thousands and thousands of calls from people who wanted me to go in a different direction, because I felt it was the right thing to do. I think it’s very important to stand up for your beliefs. Even in this race, I know there are a lot of people who would like to see casino gambling. In one of our former debates, I expressed my personal opposition to casino gambling although I believe in the end it’s a state decision. So I think there are many, many times when I have demonstrated independence on a whole range of issues.
CLINTON: Only as part of a comprehensive peace agreement. That’s always been my position, that [it should] guarantee Israel’s safety and security and the parties should agree at the negotiating table. A unilateral declaration is absolutely unacceptable and it would mean the end of any US aid.
LAZIO: That’s a change of heart for Mrs. Clinton, because back in 1998 you called for a Palestinian state. You undercut the Israeli negotiating position. The people of New York want to have somebody who has a consistent record. For eight years I have been consistent and strong in my support for the security of the state of Israel. Without equivocation. Without a question mark next to my name.
CLINTON: There is no question mark next to me. There’s an exclamation point. I am an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel’s safety and security.
Q: Did you urge him to use it?
CLINTON: That was what I urged my husband to do. He made a different decision
Q: Wait a minute. Didn’t your presidential candidate, George W. Bush, also accept contributions?
LAZIO: It’s absolutely wrong for all. The difference, though, on top of receiving the contributions, is that people who support the Hamas terrorist group, have been invited and courted at the White House, which I think is wrong.
CLINTON: I learned that an organization claimed credit for sponsoring a fund-raiser I attended; an organization whose members have made statements that I find offensive and have condemned. And as soon as I found out the facts, I returned all of the money that was raised because I did not want anyone to have a false impression about my strong support for Israel’s safety and security.
LAZIO: Do you understand that the standards that you’re talking about were endorsed by the administration’s Department of Housing and Urban Development? Do you understand that?
CLINTON: Do you understand that the standards I’m talking about, that you were trying to weaken, were said by the AARP that they would have put people in danger?
CLINTON: He fought to weaken the safety standards for manufactured housing and in-home building.
LAZIO: There’s been nobody else in the House who’s stood up for poor people and to provide them with good- quality housing. I’ve been there for the homeless, I’ve been there to provide housing for people with AIDS. I’ve been there for people who rely on Section 8. I’m boosting homeownership for our young families.
CLINTON: In fact, I’ll be meeting with a group of public-housing tenants this evening because what their memory of that fight was, Mr. Lazio, is that you were trying to remove the caps from the limits that would in some way prohibit a lot of people from being able to have the public housing.
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The above quotations are from Lazio vs. Clinton: NBC debate, Oct. 27, 2000.
Click here for other excerpts from Lazio vs. Clinton: NBC debate, Oct. 27, 2000. Click here for other excerpts by Rick Lazio. Click here for a profile of Rick Lazio.
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